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  #131 (permalink)  
Old 06-17-2008, 01:10 PM
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Some expert guy on FoxNews, "If all available farm land in the US was used to grow corn for ethanol, it could only replace 17% of the oil we consume".
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  #132 (permalink)  
Old 06-17-2008, 01:11 PM
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Originally Posted by fat mike View Post

it hasnt had much of a chance-there arent that many countervailing fuels in the first place and in the second place a lot of the necessary development hasnt happened to make use of the fuels-you yourself in a different context were talking about the necessity of laying the ground work for technology before writing it off
The 'groundwork' was done about one thousand years ago. It's fermentation, followed by distillation. Nothing new here....and if it were the answer to everything, it would have taken off on it's own. Instead we have to prop this industry up with 50 cents for each and every gallon of ethanol produced. And it still can't compete with petroleum.

Ethanol from sugar cane would be better....but of course sugar produced from outside this country has stiff tariffs imposed on it.

Perhaps someday cellotic ethanol will take off. I'd rather see tax payer monies fund that research, as it does not require food crops to produce.
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  #133 (permalink)  
Old 06-17-2008, 03:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Freedom&Liberty View Post
Some expert guy on FoxNews, "If all available farm land in the US was used to grow corn for ethanol, it could only replace 17% of the oil we consume".
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Originally Posted by DngrMse View Post
The 'groundwork' was done about one thousand years ago. It's fermentation, followed by distillation. Nothing new here....and if it were the answer to everything, it would have taken off on it's own. Instead we have to prop this industry up with 50 cents for each and every gallon of ethanol produced. And it still can't compete with petroleum.

Ethanol from sugar cane would be better....but of course sugar produced from outside this country has stiff tariffs imposed on it.

Perhaps someday cellotic ethanol will take off. I'd rather see tax payer monies fund that research, as it does not require food crops to produce.

Ethanol might be a poor bet-but you guys know thats not the only contender out there
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  #134 (permalink)  
Old 06-17-2008, 05:19 PM
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Ethanol might be a poor bet-but you guys know thats not the only contender out there
Yes there are other contenders. Too bad congress seems almost oblivious of them, and instead decided to fund corn based ethanol. The worst possible choice they could have made.
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  #135 (permalink)  
Old 06-17-2008, 05:33 PM
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Yes there are other contenders. Too bad congress seems almost oblivious of them, and instead decided to fund corn based ethanol. The worst possible choice they could have made.
There are reasons why very few have accused the American government of an over abundance of wisdom.
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  #136 (permalink)  
Old 06-17-2008, 06:25 PM
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Yes there are other contenders. Too bad congress seems almost oblivious of them, and instead decided to fund corn based ethanol. The worst possible choice they could have made.
i remmebr when Carter pushed this through-my old man (My Dad you perverts)who was a physicist-was talking about "it would take more gas to grow the crop than the fuel would yield"-Carter just wanted a feather in his cap
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  #137 (permalink)  
Old 06-17-2008, 10:46 PM
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Originally Posted by DngrMse View Post
The production of one gallon of ethanol from corn requires more energy than it contains. That's not 'alternative', it's 'insanity'.
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Originally Posted by Freedom&Liberty View Post
Some expert guy on FoxNews, "If all available farm land in the US was used to grow corn for ethanol, it could only replace 17% of the oil we consume".
Quote:
Originally Posted by DngrMse View Post
Instead we have to prop this industry up with 50 cents for each and every gallon of ethanol produced. And it still can't compete with petroleum.

Ethanol from sugar cane would be better....but of course sugar produced from outside this country has stiff tariffs imposed on it.
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Ethanol might be a poor bet-but you guys know thats not the only contender out there
Who the fuck ever said Ethanol would ever replace gasoline in the USA?

The What really surprises me about Dngr's antagonism toward Government's Support of Emerging Industry to Support Strategic Values is that he seems to appreciate NASA's efforts. How can we, on the one hand, give a shit about water on Mars, yet on the other hand, reject Govmn't efforts to support the development of alternative fuels.

I'm not even gonna mention how many ways the communi***ions industry has been propped up by the Feds.
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  #138 (permalink)  
Old 06-17-2008, 11:26 PM
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Who the fuck ever said Ethanol would ever replace gasoline in the USA?
Then what is the point of ethanol???

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The What really surprises me about Dngr's antagonism toward Government's Support of Emerging Industry to Support Strategic Values is that he seems to appreciate NASA's efforts. How can we, on the one hand, give a shit about water on Mars, yet on the other hand, reject Govmn't efforts to support the development of alternative fuels.
I've already explained my opposition to ethanol. If you don't understand why....oh well. There's not much more I can say. So why don't you hop into your govt mandated flex fuel vehicle, and go pay, (for the second time), your money on ethanol? Oh wait......we don't have govt mandated flex fuel vehicles in this country. My bad! So why, again, do we need corn based ethanol?

Why are'nt we funding the half dozen or so promising technologies, instead of engaging in feel good, pork barrel spending, and the creation of another federal subsidy program that will NEVER go away, (regardless how mature this 1000 year old 'new' industry gets)?

Were'nt you also of the opinion that we'd all be driving hydrogen fueled cars in the near future? If so....why do we need corn based ethanol?
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  #139 (permalink)  
Old 06-17-2008, 11:39 PM
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Corn should be used to make whiskey, not fuel.
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Old 06-17-2008, 11:46 PM
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Then what is the point of ethanol???



I've already explained my opposition to ethanol. If you don't understand why....oh well. There's not much more I can say. So why don't you hop into your govt mandated flex fuel vehicle, and go pay, (for the second time), your money on ethanol? Oh wait......we don't have govt mandated flex fuel vehicles in this country. My bad! So why, again, do we need corn based ethanol?

Why are'nt we funding the half dozen or so promising technologies, instead of engaging in feel good, pork barrel spending, and the creation of another federal subsidy program that will NEVER go away, (regardless how mature this 1000 year old 'new' industry gets)?

Were'nt you also of the opinion that we'd all be driving hydrogen fueled cars in the near future? If so....why do we need corn based ethanol?
My point is that much the same way that Fed's have subsidized space exploration as a vehicle to move emerging technologies from experimental to industrial appli***ion, Federal subsidies should be used to support emerging alternative energy sources.

Ethanol will not REPLACE ALL OUR energy needs, but it, like a wide variety of sources, can be utilized. Frankly, Nuclear Energy is a good, long term bet. But Fossil fuels will always be very limited..

It is somewhat extraordinary to me that you people believe that anyone would support producing cheap, plentiful oil. The antithesis of this is a rare cooperation of unlikely bedfellows: Big Oil (ExxonMobil doesn't want to build more refineries), Government (cannot continue to support a cheap energy society), and Ecologists (who insist that Acid Rain Is Bad).
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